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What type of Gun should I get?
What type of Gun should I get?
What do your targets look like, rapid fire, from concealment?
I Highly Recommend my CWP class & at least one month of Private or Couples PDC before keeping a gun for the first time!
What type of Gun should I get?
What type of Gun should I get?
What type of Gun should I get?
What type of Holster & Ammo do I need?
Let me make suggestions to you!
Private Lessons PDC
What type of Gun should I get?
Private Lessons PDC
Prices for me being your PDC is the same as strictly martial arts private lessons. Specific firearms classes will also be offered!
Quick Mozambique Failure drills!
CHECK THIS OUT!
2.52 Two Perfect Headshots 1st time DA/SA
realistic ccw 3 attacker retreat drill 9 shots 6 sec
Check out this great video
i'LL TRAIN YOU IN REALISTIC DRILLS & i CAN RUN REVOLVERS TOO
3 ATTACKERS OFF TO LEFT OR RIGHT, 1 HANDED. UNLIKE OTHER TRAINERS I CAN TEACH ALL DIFFERENT TYPES OF PISTOLS & REVOLVERS W OR WITHOUT RED DOT SIGHTS & LET YOU TRY DIFFERENT ONES!
collateral yo homie drill!
Private Bodyguard/ Tactical Stunts Shooting Comp!
Blend of Gun-Fu & Street Jiu-jitsu Skills!
My 1st Modern MEat Target Test New vs old 9mm vs .40
PAUL HARRELL TRIBUTE EXCELLENT CORRELATION TO OFFICIAL ORGANIC GEL BALLISTICS RESULTS!
Firearms & Ammo Recommendation
Most people will be well served by a Subcompact 9mm, Micro9 or Macro9, or Snub Revolver.
For most people, one pistol can be adaptable for both Summer Carry w a shorter mag, and Winter carry or home defense with a longer magazine. So Sub-ish size Compact or SubCompact is worth looking at. Many people are more likely to always carry a lightweight Micro9, Macro9, or Snub Revolver. Having one on you when you need it is the most important.
Customer Service and how companies handle warranties should be considered highly.........
Hold a few and try a few.
Home Defense Guns
While I think a high capacity pistol can do double duty as your home defense gun, I also recommend these. WML's Weapon Mounted Lights are a good idea on both your home defense pistol & on your longish gun of choice be that a "Large Pistol", Pistol Caliber Carbine, AR, or Shotgun.
"Large Pistols" aka small Pistol Caliber Carbines can be ideal for smaller statured women & teens.
An AR 16" rifle is relatively short, light, and easy to maneuver. With the right ammo, it will actually penetrate less in building's materials than either a pistol or a 12-gauge shotgun.
Semi-Auto Shotguns can be ideal for hunkering down in the safe room or bedroom. Less likely to have shooter caused malfunctions or short stroking like a pump shotgun.
With longer than 38" Overall Length long guns, people should be very careful about moving down hallways or attempting to clear a house alone.
Maverick 88 12-gauge pump action shotgun is a great but effective budget value for right handed shooters at just $200. In Urban settings, #4 Buckshot or #1 Buckshot is both more effective and penetrates less then the usually recommended 00 Buck. The slightly higher end Mossberg 500 is similar but has a top mounted safety that provides for ambidextrous operation and both are made by Mossberg. Both can also use the OPSol & Aguilla Mini-shells described below.
A 16" .357 Magnum Lever Action can also be good for both home defense & ranch defense. It's lightweight & has a short overall length so it can be beneficial for most women and teens.
My next two recommendations are controversial because people don't really look at the data but repeat hearsay. These two Legally Not Quite a Shotgun options offer a much shorter package for maneuverability in a small house or apartment, that likely has sharp corners, yet still shoot multiple projectiles with a single pull of the trigger. These can allow easier manipulation of doors and picking up or corralling children than long gun options. They can also be good stash weapons hidden around the house or under a counter at a business more easily than long guns. Also, laws in each state may apply differently to how or where a loaded one can be carried in a car compared to a legally defined "shotgun" as the Shockwave is legally a "Firearm" and the Governor is legally a "Pistol" according to Federal ATF laws. State Laws must still be followed.
Mossberg Shockwave 12-gauge pump shortie "Firearm" with REGULAR practice can be a very effective weapon especially when combined with a single point sling and front night sight and/or (& is fun for many to practice with, so you may indeed practice enough to become proficient). 5+1, though I suggest a $15 OPSol adapter so you can load it with 8-9 rounds of the lighter kicking Aguilla Buck Mini-shells. These hold 7 #4 and 4 #1 Buck in each shell which gives a mix of really ideal penetration without over penetration if you live with others in other rooms.
Smith & Wesson Governor .410/.45 Colt/.45 ACP 6-shot Revolver is a good choice if not living in a very cold place for those that may have to pick up children & also have to worry about snake defense on their property. It also is extremely fun, and good for any SHTF or camping situations because of all the different types of ammo that will fire in it (including .45 GAP that can sometimes be bought cheap). The first four rounds loaded with Federal Personal Defense 000 Buck shooting 4 .36 61 grain buckshot at 800 fps for 347 ft. lbs of energy is something naysayers should not laugh at unless you are living in a very cold place where people wear many thick layers of clothing. The last two rounds in the cylinder I recommend .45 Colt Barnes VorTx 200 gr. XPB at 921 fps for 379 ft. lbs of energy (alternatively .45 Colt PDX-1 225 gr. at 802 fps for 321 ft. lbs. of energy can be used). My best guess for the quickest effective reloads would be full moon clips of .45 ACP loaded with 185 gr. + P Golden Saber, 200 gr. XTP +P, or 230 gr. Short Barrel Gold Dot or quality .45 GAP hollowpoints. However, velocities of .45 ACP and .45 GAP from the Governor are not obtainable.
Pocket Carry
For many reasons, I recommend carrying a lightweight backup or ALWAYS gun or BUG in a front pocket holster .
My recommended Carry Ammo Based on Ballistics Gel Tests & Real World. Search Youtube "DanTheWolfman
- What matters in Pistol Ammo Performance of Hollowpoint ammunition is by far the #1 category of Deep enough Consistent Penetration. Barrel length effects velocity and therefore performance.
- Expansion. It is generally good to get hollowpoints that expand to 1.5 times or greater their original diameter.
- Velocity & Energy. If the first two criteria are equal in gel tests, I will always want the ones with greater velocity and muzzle energy. Certain rounds like the 9bple I still feel have proven highly effective in many real L.E. shootings because of the high velocity and energy while still penetrating deep enough w/ service sized pistols even though an older bullet design that fragments. After all, it mimics the best supposed street stopper of any pistol round ever in the .357 125 gr. SJHP. My personal THEORY is that Sometimes, Some people MAY react quicker psychologically through perhaps greater nerve impulses and/or the louder bang from higher velocity rounds. Some people MAY IN THEORY psychologically register a higher velocity fragmenting round differently, registering that they were shot quicker than from slower bullets AKA FIBS FACTOR F I've Been Shot changing their deadly behavoir! Again this is only my personal theory and adequate minimum 12" gel (10.5" Organic Gel Penetration may be enough for most civilian frontal shots). Penetration is first and foremost for any projectile under 2000 fps. In that, I pointed out ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL, I want the Faster bullet. Higher EKE Expanded Kinetic Energy in E15 or first 15cm is a measurable unit! I pointed out Penetration is by far #1 criteria, then expansion #2. Most pistol stops are Psychological stops, most attackers stop their deadly actions before they physically need to. Wanting to POSSIBLY increase that chance, if all other criteria is met equally does no harm. How is it that .357 Sig works well IRL, even though I prefer 9mm or 10mm penetration? How is it that SuperVel, .38 Super,.30 Carbine, and 7.62 by 25mm Tok had real street reputations way back when? And the .357 magnum which was legendary with the right ammo. Because Velocity........Real world results say 9mm 9bple and .357 mag 125 SJHP Work great. Why? Velocity...and the by products of that.Wider dispersion of wounding effect, fragments causing effect over a greater area dispersing more tissue EFFECTING MORE NERVES, and the main would permanent cavity being wider (than slower bullets)......this is way more similar to how rifle rounds do work, then when comparing slow pistol rounds to rifle rounds.
For Civilians Federal HST, Punch, or Hydrashok Deep are likely best choices across calibers.
#1 Any HST
#2. Any Punch
#3. Any Hydrashok Deep
#4. Any Gold Dot
The next four I put in the good, but not as good IMO as the previously listed ones. Good perhaps for stored extra mags in home or car, or SHTF.
#5. Fiocchi Defense Dynamics. 124 gr 9mm is a solid performer in 50 round boxes.
#6. Sig 124 gr. V-crown
#7. Winchester 147 gr. Ranger T
#8. Remington 115 gr. HTP Plus P is a budget performer that penetrates very far for a 115 gr. bullet.
I will now suggest something unconventional, something to consider especially if your primary ammo isn't at the later range of penetration depths. For high capacity pistols it may make sense to load rounds #11 and up in order from which they come out, the bottoms of your mags, with ammo we know penetrates well through intermediate barriers or more reliably through bones for cases of extended firefights where they may be behind cover. This being any 124 gr. XTP such as from Fiocchi or Hornady, or 135 gr. Plus P Critical Duty for longer barrels. Similarly, your extra mag carried or kept in the center console of your vehicle may be fmj ball.
In .45 I would recommend either 230 gr. HST, Punch, Hydrashok Deep, or 185 gr. Golden Saber +P as an overall round. While not usually a fan of Critical Duty outside of backup mag use, the 220 gr. Plus P does perform well. XTP's also give consistent deep penetration though light on expansion.
In 2" Snub .38 Revolvers one could attempt to get the best from it with 120-135 gr +p JHP's. Hydrashok Deep, Punch, Remington 125 gr Golden Saber +P, Winchester 130 gr Ranger Bonded +P, or 135+p Short Barrel Gold Dots. Being within a certain distance from Point of Aim Point of Impact matters say 15 yards and in. 110 gr ammo may hit too low.
A Similar thought process can be used for a 12-gauge shotgun. In Urban Home settings, especially with others in the same home on opposite sides, loading lead #1 Buck (or even #4 Buckshot in apartments or condos) rather than plated LE 00 Buck may be advisable for less penetration through walls for shot that misses. Alternatively, Mossberg/Maverick can use Opsol Adapter and the mixed Minishell Buck. In Rural Settings and Car Duty, something like 00 Buck w/ some Slugs the 2nd half of your magazine tube makes sense. Up close and personal when wanting the quickest incapacitation, for the most Shot delivered without too much spread #1 Buck will do well.
Some DGU Statistics & my 3579 "Rule" to live by!
#1. Most Civilian Pistol interactions are are between 2 to 7 yards or within one car length. Obviously no one ever wants to be involved in a traumatic lethal force situation, but it is important to know some statistics. Of course once one gets good at 2 to 7 yards, becoming comfortable at longer distances like 15 yard headshots for church security and out to 25 or even 50 yards should be practiced if possible for outlier events.
#2. FBI stats say multiple attackers increasing.
#3. Common sense says good to train as if there are 3 attackers. OG Jeff Cooper's El Presidente Drill established 3 targets long ago, and multiple attackers has statistically increased exponentially since then. Picturing 3 at varying distances but still up close and person, all three armed with handguns, or the closest w a knife, 2nd farthest w a Pistol, and the 3rd farthest with a long gun I think it is good mental preparation/visualization for the biggest SNAFU one might find themselves in. A reminder of how deadly a knife or a long gun is, is a good mental note.
#4. Alternative Look at handgun stopping power has 9mm, .40, and .45 requiring above 2 rounds per attacker to stop their deadly action. Avg. number of rounds until incapacitation-in all was above 2. Pistols are not shotguns with buckshot or over .300 caliber rifles, & do not have the magical instant fall down & die "Stopping Power" that Hollywood has everyone believing.
#5. Debate Double Taps vs Triple Taps and understand why I am suggesting practicing both.
The biggest thing, is don't mentally assume a single shot or double tap will be enough to stop an attacker. It may, but statistically from the poor stopper that is a handgun, it could take three or many more shots on target to stop someone's deadly actions. Once you are a competent safe shooter you should practice strong side only, weak side only, close retention, and from varying strange positions including firing from down on the ground or when seated.
3 by 3 Rule... Assume there may always be a minimum of 3 bad guys requiring 3 shots each to either drive them off or down them. Statistically in all SERVICE Calibers (not .357's), perps need more than 2 shots to Stop their aggressive actions.
My 3579 "Rule" to live by! Assume there may be 3 Bad Guys or more at average distance of 5 yards (often starts at 2--3 yards & extend to 7 yards once the shooting starts), it may be 7 seconds of intense firing, & it may require at least 9 rounds to drive them off or down them & have some rounds left to cover hold the downed. If one carries a revolver, it may be wise to carry a 2nd for a quick NY reload like Jim Cirillo of the NYD Stakeout Squad did.
Comparison of Best 9mm to .38 to .380
Original 10mm FBI Load for Reference point
#2. Original 10mm FBI Load for Reference point
For Reference so people can see where modern 9mm is at
The Original FBI 10mm 180 gr. Federal Load w Seirra JHP (not the later 190 gr.) from FBI DATA fired from a
3.75" barrel 922 fps 18.33" .536 had a 95% success rate in their testing at 340 ft. lbs. of ME.
5" barrel 931 fps 17.24 .547 95% success rate in their testing 346.4 ft. lbs.
.....Compare that to my two top selections in 9mm below and you will see we are doing well in modern times
Muzzle Energy Comparison of different Pistol/Revolver Calibers
1. 9mm 3.5" barrel 350-450 ft. lbs. of Muzzle Energy (350 being higher end of standard pressure to 377 for +p to 425-450 ft. lbs for Plus P Plus) Muzzle Energy Comparison of the Best Rounds from common carry sized barrels in 3 common Calibers
2. .357 2" barrel 333 ft. lbs for more controllable 2nd best or 425 ft. lbs best but recoil and follow up shot speed may be very compromised
3. .38+p 2" barrel 213 ft. lbs. from Plus P
4. .380 2.7" barrel 125-128 ft. lbs
5. .40 3.42" barrel 344-438 ft. lbs
6. .45 3.64" barrel 414-426 ft. lbs from mostly Plus P, 1 Standard
7. .410 S&W Governor 347 ft. lbs The Governor has a 2.75" Chamber PLUS 2.75" Barrel
.45 Colt S&W Governor 321-379 ft. lbs.
References on Ballistics
Commonly used on Youtube, Clear Ballistics has at most 70% Correlation to Organic Gel FBI style testing according to Chris Laack at Federal. It is usually 17% less dense, and doesn't over exaggerate penetration equally across calibers.
Luckygunner, Ammo2Go, ShootingTheBull, Tnoutdoors9, ScubaOz and others ballistic tests.
Alternate Look at Handgun stopping power-Street Data
Handgun Ammunition Stopping Power Update-Street Data
Written by Evan Marshall
FBI and NYPD data
Dr. Gary Roberts
“Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness” by Urey Patrick of the FBI FTU
Quotes from Massad Ayoob
Here are some
"What Cops Carry
While there’s lots of good ammo out there, most departments are using premium loads from the “Big Four” brands. Those would be, in alphabetical order: Federal HST, Remington Golden Saber, Speer Gold Dot and Winchester Ranger. All of these loads have been exhaustively, expensively developed to meet the demanding performance specs of the FBI in terms of expansion and penetration. Because these rounds are tracked regarding field performance, they are the ones that have the most documentable records.
HST? Portland, Ore., reports extreme satisfaction with its performance in 147-gr. 9mm configuration. San Diego issues HST in every authorized caliber and is very happy with it. LAPD reports the 230-gr. +P HST to be performing superbly in the .45 ACP’s that thousands of their officers have bought on their own.
Golden Saber? Sources at FBI tell me it works fabulously as the standard 230-gr. load for the optional .45’s of field agents and the .45’s issued to SWAT and the Hostage Rescue Team. I’m advised Tulsa found the Golden Saber 165-gr. .40 much more effective in their issue Glock 22s than the 180-gr. subsonics they used before.
Gold Dot? The 124-gr. +P has delivered awesome performance in the 9mms of NYPD’s nearly 35,000 officers. Las Vegas Metro uses Gold Dot across the board in three approved calibers, and their firearms instructors have told me the 124-gr. +P 9mm is every bit as effective as the 180-gr. .40 and the 230-gr. .45 ACP. From Texas Department of Public Safety to the Virginia State Police and Richmond PD, 125-gr. .357 SIG Gold Dot is dropping felons with amazing alacrity. Secret Service and Federal Air Marshals also issue .357 SIG 125-gr. Gold Dot.
Winchester Ranger? LAPD and LA County report high satisfaction with the 147-gr. 9mm version, and the 165-gr. .40 and 230-gr. .45 are awesome performers in the field."
Below by Daniel T.
FBI DATA I have compiled on rounds they have issued
FBI. They changed ammo often, here is what I could find.
Duty ammo for .45 ACP is Rem Golden Saber 230 Grain JHP (non-bonded). The ammo for .40 S&W is the 180 grain Winchester JHP load. The remaining Speer 165 grain Gold Dots are to be used up and not replaced. Before the Gold Dots it was 165gr Federal Hydra-Shoks. Duty 9mm at one point was Speer 124 grain Gold Dot ammo, possibly Plus P. The new 9mm round —may be the 147-grain Speer Gold Dot G2 if that didn't change due to expansion problems? In 2013 their RFP The award was finally issued in August 19, 2013 and Federal, Winchester and Hornady were given contracts. That RFP said It must have a power factor of between 135 and 155 (bullet weight in grains x velocity at 15 ft measured in ft. per sec. / 1,000).
The service ammo must have a bullet weight of between 120 and 147 grains and NO FAILURES UNDER 12" EVER. Contrary to an earlier post, the FBI does not switch out ammo willy-nilly on a 6 month basis. There is a long ammo-testing procedure once the proposal for a new ammo contract is published. Hornady has been awarded the IDIQ Contract for 135+p Critical Duty.
MP-5's are being phased out and M-4 carbines (modified for semi-auto only), a mix of RRA and Colt, are for street agents...1 in 9 twist. SWAT uses a select-fire M-4 with a 1 in 7 twist. Service ammo is 60 grain Winchester w/Nosler partition ammo. At one point it may have been .223 Federal Tactical Bonded 65gr SP's. I suspect Hornady TAP also used but can not confirm.
Remington 870 is in the inventory and uses slug and 00 buck of the 9 pellet variety. The MP-5/10 uses Federal 190 grain JHP in 10 mm.
9mm
This Data is from CLEAR BALLISTICS TESTING so should be taken with a heavy dose of salt.
9mm Data 9mm 3.5" Barrel-
1. 124 gr HST 4 Layer 1135 fps 18'3" .61 355 ft. lbs. of muzzle energy
2. 124 gr Plus P Golden Saber 4 Layer 1170 fps 18.2" .66 377 ft. lbs. ME in Evan Marshalls Street Data w 88% stops....So that backs up the Gel tests. Now, there are too many variables in "Street Data", but when Street Data backs up good Ballistic Gel test data, than you have something.
3. 124 gr. Plus P Gold Dot 4 Layer 1141 16'8" .52 358 ft. lbs. ME in Evan Marshalls Street Data CCI loading w 88% stops....So that backs up the Gel tests.
4. 115 gr. Plus P Plus 9bple (only in high quality firearms-would not suggest in under 3.5" or over 5" barrels-Excellent Street Cred from L.E. back in the day-might be somewhat questionable in cold weather multiple layer even though with the Illinois State Police it did well...I just think it likely does even better in warmer area like it did w Border Patrol) app 425-450 ft. lbs (467 ft lbs from a 3.5" in hot AZ summer was reported but underpenetrated in 4 layer test because seemed to be rare over the norm velocity), in colder weather they are noticeably slower, in very hot weather much hotter. When at app. 1325 fps. which it can be from 3.5"-4'5" barrels depending on weather....BARE 16", .522+frags, Another Test BARE 17" .469, 2 layer cotton 13.9" .45, 4 layer 12.75 .58 Best 9mm in Evan Marshalls Street Data w 91% stops....So that backs up the Gel tests.
5. Going to include what I think is likely the best 147 gr. for those that think that is the way to go. This round is also on Gary Roberts approved list fyi 147 gr JHP - Winchester Ranger T-Series 941 fps 16.5" .74 ONLY 289 Ft. Lbs of energy. While the expansion is great, the better penetration and energy of the HST and Golden Sabers is better IMO.
Below are a couple that look like strong performers, and perhaps good for backup or stashed mags for car/home etc.
6. Fiocchi 124 gr Defense Dynamics
7. Remington 115 gr. HTP Plus P is a budget performer
8. Sig 124 gr. V-crown
.380 Pocket Pistol
#1 choice for .380 is Hydrashok Deep
#2 .380 2.8" barrel pocket pistol best IMO opinion from ShootingtheBull because of great penetration is the Fiocchi 90 gr. XTP app 790 fps 13.41" .412 in BARE GEL 4 Layer Denim app 800 fps 15.69" .394 avg. diameter....
Penetration is good, BUT ONLY 125-128 ft. lbs. Muzzle Energy from 2.8" barrel
#3 .380 2.7" Sig P238 Scuba Oz 88 gr Remington HTP 21" No expansion but tumble damage
3.25" Glock 42 barrel LuckyGunner 88 gr Remington HTP 839 fps 16.9" .354 139 ft. lbs.
The Precision One XTP has better expansion but less penetration, it is very good, but I prefer more penetration
#4 Could mix Dutch Load Alternating Winchester FMJ Flat point & Gold Dots
.40, .45 ACP, and .410/.45 Colt
For the data below on .40 & .45 ACP
1. For the data below, LuckyGunner ballistic data USING CLEAR BALLISTICS is used. Have not cross referenced with data from tnoutdoors9 and other testers.
Luckygunner testing guns for 4 layer tests
9mm: Smith & Wesson M&P9c, 3.5-inch barrel
.40 S&W: Glock 27, 3.42-inch barrel
.45 ACP: Kahr CW45, 3.64-inch barrel
.45 ACP from Kahr CW45, 3.64-inch barrel
1. 45 ACP +P - 185 gr JHP - Remington Golden Saber-
Median Velocity 1018 fps 15.7" .76 426 ft. lbs. of energy
In Evan Marshall's data, the standard pressure was #1 in all .45 rounds w/ 96% stops
.2. 45 ACP - +P 200 Grain XTP JHP - Hornady Custom
965 fps 18" VERY CONSISTENT 17.6-18.9 penetration in 4-layer Denim test .59 414 ft. lbs. ME
.3 45 ACP +P - 230 gr JHP - Winchester Ranger (the Standard pressure from this barrel is almost identical) . I want to point out, in real world where a bad guy may only have a single T-shirt covering his frontal center mass, these rounds may be dangerously on the shallow end of penetration depths fyi.
905 fps 14.4" Amazing 1.00" diameter 418 ft. lbs. ME
45 ACP - 230 gr JHP - Winchester Ranger T-Series
905 14.2" Amazing 1.01 diameter 418 ft. lbs. Muzzle Energy.
Both these rounds on on Dr. Gary Roberts approved list
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)
For .45 holdouts, there is still this From Massad Ayoob "A famous wound ballistics specialist whose work was pivotal to the FBI’s testing protocols was Dr. Martin Fackler, who died last month. In a 2012 interview Dr. Fackler said, “The size of the hole the bullet makes, the .45 is bigger than a nine-mill. But how much bigger, by diameter, it really doesn’t give you the measure of how much tissue it disrupts. What does is the area of a circle. Area of a circle, it was pi-r-squared. It’s the radius squared. So, if you take your .45, your point four-five-one and your nine-millimeter as your point three-five-five, take half, take the radius, square that, and what you’ll find is that the volume, or the area, of damaged tissue made by the .45 is about sixty percent more than made by the nine.”
.40
#8. .40 S&W: Glock 27, 3.42-inch barrel .40 is a bit difficult, because old Mashall data strongly suggest the lighter faster stuff was more effective, but only 2 out of 7 rounds I would think are good based on gel data for this barrel length are below 180 gr. (and only 3 of my 7 list are on Roberts' list). In Dr. Gary Roberts' approved list, 6 out of 12 are lighter than 180 gr. bullets.
For this reason, here is all of Dr. Roberts' approved list, before listing some specifics
.40 S&W:
Barnes XPB 140 & 155 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP
Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
Speer Gold Dot 165 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1)
Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T)
Winchester 180 gr bonded JHP (RA40B/Q4355/S40SWPDB1)
1. 40 S&W - 155 Grain HST JHP
1079 fps 16'8" .68 401 ft. lbs. ME
2. 40 S&W - 165 gr JHP - Winchester Ranger Bonded
1094 fps 14.9" .757 438 ft. lbs. ME
3. 40 S&W - 180 gr HST JHP
960 fps 18'4" .72 368 ft. lbs. ME
This is also on Dr. Gary Roberts' approved list
4. 40 S&W - 180 Grain JHP - Remington Golden Saber (the Bonded is very similar, but not as consistent w 2 out of 5 rounds penetrating less than ideal-1 Failing below 12") TAKE NOTE of this quote from Massad Ayoob said about the slightly over-penetrating 165 gr. compared to this shallow penetrating 180 gr. "I’m advised Tulsa found the Golden Saber 165-gr. .40 much more effective in their issue Glock 22s than the 180-gr. subsonics they used before." Of course, we don't know if Tulsa was using unbonded or the really sometimes under penetrating/occasional Fail Bonded like I myself mentioned. May this be a case that points out where slightly over-penetrating 19.2" is better than shallow penetrating 13.9"?
928 fps 13'9" .81 344 ft. lbs. ME
5. 40 S&W - 180 gr BJHP - Remington Ultimate Defense
976 fps 15'9" .80 381 ft. lbs. ME
6. 40 S&W - 180 gr JHP - Winchester Ranger T-Series
950 fps 16.5" .686 361 ft. lbs. ME
On Dr. Roberts' approved list
7. 40 S&W - 180 Grain JHP - Winchester Bonded--This is White Box bargain buy (if Ranger T or Bonded can't be found, or too expensive for stashed extra mags and you want similar to the Ranger T or Bonded you primary carry)
933 fps 16'5" .70 348 ft. lbs. ME
Smith & Wesson Governor .410/.45 Colt/.45 ACP Data (Similar for 2" to 3" barrel Judge's as reference
Smith & Wesson Governor .410/.45 Colt/.45 ACP 6-shot Revolver is a good choice if not living in a very cold place for those that may have to open doors, pick up, or corral children for home defense. It could make a good backpack or car gun, or a good stash gun for home or business. It also is extremely fun, and good for any SHTF or camping situations because of all the different types of ammo that will fire in it (including .45 GAP that can sometimes be bought cheap). The first four rounds loaded with Federal Personal Defense 000 Buck shooting 4 .36 61 grain buckshot at 800 fps for 347 ft. lbs of energy is something naysayers should not laugh at unless you are living in a very cold place where people wear many thick layers of clothing. The last two rounds in the cylinder I recommend .45 Colt Barnes VorTx 200 gr. XPB at 921 fps for 379 ft. lbs of energy (alternatively .45 Colt PDX-1 225 gr. at 802 fps for 321 ft. lbs. of energy can be used). My best guess for the quickest effective reloads would be full moon clips of .45 ACP loaded with 185 gr. + P Golden Saber, 200 gr. XTP +P, or 230 gr. Short Barrel Gold Dot or quality .45 GAP hollowpoints. However, velocities of .45 ACP and .45 GAP from the Governor are not obtainable (not as good as .45 Colt from the Governor).
Conclussions
Ballistic Data Comparisons in the main Service Calibers
Conclusion.....Ammo Selection is more important than Caliber selection if it is anything less than .68-.73/12-Gauge or .30plus Rifle. Even in 5.56 mm ammo selection is very important for it's likely use parameters.
1. 9mm 124 gr HST 1135 fps 18'3" .61 355 ft. lbs. of muzzle energy
2. 9mm 124 gr Plus P Golden Saber 1170 fps 18.2" .66 377 ft. lbs. ME
3. .40 S&W - 155 Grain HST JHP 1079 fps 16'8" .68 401 ft. lbs. ME
4. .40 S&W - 180 gr HST JHP 960 fps 18'4" .72 368 ft. lbs. ME
5. .45 ACP +P - 185 gr JHP - Golden Saber 1018 fps 15.7" .76 426 ft. lbs. of energy
6. .45 ACP +P 200 Grain XTP JHP -Hornady C 965 fps 18" .59 414 ft. lbs. ME
7. .45 ACP +P - 230 gr JHP - Ranger 905 fps 14.4" 1.00" 418 ft. lbs. ME
( I want to point out, in real world where a bad guy may only have a single cotton T-shirt covering his frontal center mass, this round may be dangerously on the shallow end of penetration depths fyi.)
8. .357 2" - 140 gr XPB HP - Barnes VOR-TX 1169 fps 17.1" .66 425 ft. lbs (recoil, & follow up times?)
9. .357 2"- 125 gr Golden Saber 1096 fps 18.7" .62 333 ft. lbs
10. In .38 2" barrel K6 from lucky gunner data the best IMO Remington 125 gr Golden Saber +P 877 fps 13.7" avg .62 This round also ranked tied for second place in Evan Marshalls Street Data....So that backs Gel tests up.
11. .380 2.7" barrel pocket pistol one of the best IMO from ShootingtheBull because of great penetration is the Fiocchi 90 gr. XTP app 790 fps 13.41" .412 in BARE GEL 4 Layer Denim app 800 fps 15.69" .394 avg. diameter....
Penetration is good, BUT ONLY 125-128 ft. lbs. Muzzle Energy.
12. .380 2.7" Sig P238 Scuba Oz 88 gr Remington HTP 21" No expansion but tumble damage
3.25" Glock 42 barrel LuckyGunner 88 gr Remington HTP 839 fps 16.9" .354 139 ft. lbs.
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